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		<title>Comments for page &quot;Charmed Chain&quot;</title>
		<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain</link>
		<description>Posts in the discussion thread &quot;Charmed Chain&quot;</description>
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-4191854</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-4191854</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2019 02:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>In my quest to understand and categorize opponent flags, the charmed chain has some good clues. In previous podcasts, Kinak has confirmed that there isn't a &quot;has_fangs&quot; flag specifically for determining the charms. (edit: And in separate investigation, he confirmed there's not a has_pants flag for the <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/elegantly-torn-pants">elegantly torn pants</a>; it seems to trigger on the <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/human">human</a> flag and a few other select creatures like ghouls.) Current known data below (<strong>humans in bold</strong>, <span class="unearthly">Taking Eclipse in dark green</span>, <span class="derivative">Inherent Eclipse (speculated) in light green</span>).</p> <table class="wiki-content-table"> <tr> <td>Chained Figure</td> <td>Key</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Drone Hound, Ghoul, Twisted Hound, Drone Statue</td> <td>Fang</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Lake Serpent, Terrible Serpent, Deep Hunter</td> <td>Fish</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Mushroom Scout, (Mushroom Harvester untested)</td> <td>Fae</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Burrowing Drone, Burrowing Centipede, Horrific Spider, Midgard SD1, Pit Spider, <strong><span class="unearthly">Twisted Patron</span></strong></td> <td>Spider</td> </tr> <tr> <td><span class="derivative">Angered Rat</span>, <span class="derivative">Dazzling Cloud</span>, <span class="derivative">Flying Eye</span>, Living Sludge, <span class="derivative">Painted Woman</span>, <span class="derivative">Pile of Secrets</span>, <span class="derivative">Spearwoman</span>, <strong><span class="unearthly">Spider Patron</span></strong>, <strong><span class="unearthly">Third Eye Ganger</span></strong>, <span class="derivative">Trash Golem</span>, Tusked Shadow, Writhing Mass, Giant Maggot, <span class="derivative">Spectral Sailor</span>, <strong>Design Student</strong>, Ghoul King, The Navigator, <strong><span class="unearthly">Insane Slasher</span></strong>, Flickering Guard</td> <td>Eye</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Construction Crew, Contract Inspector, Counterculture Partier, Dancer, Demonic Bouncer, Dock Security, Dockhand, Drunken Tiger, Fae Dancer, Internal Security (Baton), Internal Security (Needler), Midgard Security, Office Worker (Female), Office Worker (Male), Roaring Drunk, Slags Guard&nbsp;(gate guard), Tattooed Patron, Third Eye Poseur</strong></td> <td>Skull</td> </tr> </table> <p>The Key/Fae/Fang/Fish/Spider triggers likely take priority; then anyone etheric gets Eye charm (whether <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/inherent-etheric">Inherent Etheric</a> or <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/etheric-effects">Taking Eclipse</a>); and then Human; and if none of above apply you don't get any charm.</p> <p>This could be determined from techniques those opponents use or other opponent flags.<br /> Some notes:</p> <p><strong>Key</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Specifically tagged to the chained figure for the puzzle/boss/skill.</li> </ul> <p><strong>Fang</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>We know that there is an existing <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/hound">Hound</a> flag; but Drone Statue does not qualify (though does trigger fang).</li> <li>Most of these use Ghoul Bite, but <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/drone-statue">Drone Statue</a> does not (though triggers fang); and others like <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/painted-woman">Painted Woman</a> does use Ghoul Bite (though does not trigger fang). <ul> <li>Perhaps triggers on {uses eating technique if Master Defense is eating technique; and otherwise not demihuman} but that seems unlikely.</li> </ul> </li> <li>There is also the side-oddity that apparently if you have a Bone effect and Etheric active, the fang is temporarily unlocked as long as you have those effects active but cannot be pulled off. Can other charms be unlocked in temporary ways?</li> </ul> <p><strong>Fish</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Seems consistant with <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/aquatic">Aquatic</a>. <ul> <li>Deep Hunter has Ocean Eyes, but triggers on Lake Serpent as well, which doesn't.</li> <li>To test - if writhing mass underwater unlocks it? Probably not.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p><strong>Fae</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Not sure on trigger. Mushroom Scout does not have Fae Eyes.</li> <li>Mushrooms and Fae are at odds a bit in David's quest; they are obviously inter-related in some ways but not fully aligned.</li> </ul> <p><strong>Spider</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Probably not triggered based on what techniques enemies use (eg. Midgard SD1 only uses Ranged).</li> <li>Centipedes also trigger this, a bit of a belated surprise. (edit: Crypto says he asked in a bug report if centipedes should be tagged as &quot;skittering&quot; maybe, that may have been added later.)</li> <li><strong>Notably</strong>: The Twisted Patron is Spider but Spider Patron is Eye. What makes the etheric version of this opponent spidery?</li> </ul> <p><strong>Eye</strong>:</p> <ul> <li>Seems to trigger on all humans that are <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/etheric-effects">Taking Eclipse</a>, and on enemies that are &quot;<a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/inherent-etheric">Inherently Etheric</a>&quot;. <ul> <li><a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/inherent-etheric">Inherent Etheric</a> is a flag that Kinak has confirmed exists but is not known to be able to be tested for (aside from this item maybe)</li> <li><strong>Notably</strong>: The <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/design-student">Design Student</a> does not trigger <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/etheric-effects">Taking Eclipse</a>, but does trigger the Eye charm. She claim she does not take Eclipse but there is something odd going on with her <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/odd-sketchbook">odd sketchbook</a>. Possible she has the <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/inherent-etheric">inherent etheric</a> flag? Has she somehow internalized ethericness? Not sure what the story implications are there.</li> <li>No way to confirm but it seems the non-green opponents listed above (Living Sludge, Tusked Shadow, Writhing Mass, Giant Maggot, Ghoul King, Navigator) are probably tagged as inherent-etheric as well.</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p><strong>Skull</strong><br /> All remaining humans that don't meet above criteria.</p> <p><strong>None</strong><br /> The rare opponent that doesn't meet any of above criteria; notably sappy stuff like the faceless worker/cubicles.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2248154</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2248154</link>
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				<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2015 07:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Vholes</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>277816</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The charms (that I have) disappear when sober, the chains (that I have) stay. If it's not as simple as that division, I'll leave the page edit to someone with more experience.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2247673</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2247673</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Which techniques were you getting while sober? There's an etheric set and non-etheric set (with some overlap).</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2247579</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2247579</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2015 08:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Vholes</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>277816</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I finally started playing with this item today. I started out muffled sight, but my etheric ran out and I still had the techs. Is the etheric requirement on this page just a very out of date hypothesis?</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2068648</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2068648</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2014 20:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>So ghouls, twisted hounds and the memorial drone statue seem to unlock the fanged charm. I considered if it is checking whether it uses <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/ghoul-bite">ghoul bite</a> but there are other opponents with ghoul bite which don't give it (eg. giant maggot). I'm guessing there's some kind of has_fangs flag??</p> <p>The eye charm is also an oddity: successfully gotten from the writhing mass, living sludge, spearwoman, etc. but NOT from the tree of hands or rat king. I wonder if that is flag based as well?</p> <p>See <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-931381/unlocked-chain">Unlocked chain discussion</a> for more details.</p> <p>Also - no charm for killing old man mushroom.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2064942</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2064942</link>
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				<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2014 04:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Vholes</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>277816</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Podcast 37: Kinak answers some questions around 7 minutes in. I'm not posting his answers here because I personally have not yet tried the charmed chain and want to mess around with it myself when I have time.</p> <p>EDIT 2 Mar 2015:<br /> Podcast 40: this is it</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2062618</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2062618</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2014 03:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Unlocking snapping chain is inversely related to your <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/stealth-power">Stealth Power</a> at the start of the combat, as long as you have some Stealth Power. It's not &quot;unlocked&quot; per se like the other charms but changes each combat.</p> <p>0 SP = 0 copies<br /> 1 SP = 4 copies (nightmarish gang jacket only)<br /> 2 SP = 4 copies (abstract domino mask only)<br /> 3 SP = 3 copies (shining glasses only)<br /> 4 SP = 3 copies (black strands)<br /> 5 SP = 2 copies<br /> 6 SP = 2 copies<br /> 8 SP = 1 copies<br /> 9 SP = 0 copies</p> <p>-2 SP = 0 copies</p> <p>Now to figure out how to shatter my opponent's bonds&#8230;</p> <p>(I would imagine this is checked at the start of combat&#8230; there isn't a lot that can change your stealth power mid-way through&#8230; Blood In The Snow maybe though probably can't get that unless you are etheric. Maybe some weird combination of an antique pocket mirror reflecting a gaze effect which you can then use to get <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/gaze-beyond-effect">Gaze Beyond effect</a>? EDIT: yes, I can confirm that if you get +2 SP from Gaze Beyond, you still keep the same of techniques in the deck &#8212; it is only checking SP at the start of the fight.)</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2056267</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2056267</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2014 14:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Cryptodynamic</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>327829</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Yeah, they all fall off. I went several days without using the chain, and it was completely back to the base attacks.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2056265</guid>
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2056265</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2014 14:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Erenoth</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1206119</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Is it just me or do the charms kind of fall off after a few days? I spent the last few days at the waterfront with charms from hounds, the spider, and the flying eye in addition to the skull and fish one I can get there, but after rollover I have some of the basic attacks again. I still have the two charms I get for the enemies I've been fighting though, only the attacks from other areas have disappeared.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2052143</guid>
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2052143</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Just got snapping chain. Only difference between today and the ~1 day's worth of energy I spent yesterday in the charnel house is that I loaded up on +stealth power this time. Got it after charging into a fight with two ghouls.</p> <p>Midgard Scientist = skull</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2050249</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2050249</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2014 03:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Arkaim and I checked this out &#8212; they use the charm techniques like normal.</p> <p>(The eye charm gave a stringy eyeball and Arkaim was etheric. I'm not sure if my clones were using the stringy eyeball version but I doubt it. I would suspect that part is responsive.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2049477</guid>
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2049477</link>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Erenoth</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1206119</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>So, it should be able to check what the charm granted attacks do when not etheric if you make chains of them to join PvP then leave clones with no energy of etheric. I would be interested to know if they work like normal, but I'm to busy trying to get the skill, or even fight the chain monster a few more times, before I can look into it.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2047726</guid>
				<title>(no title)</title>
				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2047726</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2014 01:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>bigalphillips</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>316825</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <blockquote> <p>Should we keep a list of what we've fought with the chain?</p> </blockquote> <p>I was planning to add a column to the <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/opponents-testing">opponents testing</a> page when I had a spare second. In the meantime, here is as good as anywhere to keep a list I suppose.</p> <p>It's not clear exactly how you un-unlock (lock?) charms again, other than resetting presumably so some opponents may be harder to test without resetting a bunch.</p> <p>EDIT: also - nothing special for killing spectral sailors. I thought that there might be since these are ghost chains.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2047714</guid>
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2047714</link>
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				<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2014 01:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Cryptodynamic</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>327829</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>So, as long as I have any other source of <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/eclipse-duration">eclipse duration</a> equipped, this seems to be providing a hidden +2 bonus <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/eclipse-duration">eclipse duration</a>.</p> <p>Edit: If my only equipment is the charmed chain and a +1 offhand like the <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/bat-paperweight">bat paperweight</a> or a <a href="http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/cabling-nest">cabling nest</a>, I wind up with no bonus duration at all, not even that which the offhand should provide. Asking Kinak if something weird is going on, or the modifier is just less straightforward than it first appeared.</p> 
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				<guid>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903#post-2046554</guid>
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2046554</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2014 01:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Erenoth</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1206119</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Nevermind, ran out of etheric, thought I lost all my charms.</p> 
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				<link>http://metroplexity.wikidot.com/forum/t-869903/charmed-chain#post-2046111</link>
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				<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2014 11:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Erenoth</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>1206119</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Should we keep a list of what we've fought with the chain? Cause I would love to take on the electric sewer serpent and see if I get anything but without light of the eye that seems&#8230; difficult. Same goes for other bosses, ocean king, or even just rarer creatures like ghosts and the ones in lake metroplex.</p> 
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