Requests for Feedback

Summary:

Two Questions: Donation Item Pulls and Evasion Display

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Requests for Feedback

Kinak 07 Jun 2009 16:50

I've gotten two suggestions recently that kind of affect the player base as a whole, so I'd like to open up some discussion. I'll start with the simpler one:

Evasion Calculation
Now, when you evade an attack (with a Technique like Dive for Cover), it displays something like ", but you avoid 1 damage." The idea is changing that to "you avoid all but X damage" or "you avoid all damage" formatted into the string.

Pros: Don't have to do math in your head.
Cons: I kind of like it displaying how much I evaded, just so I know they're doing something.

This isn't something I could toggle on and off, really, so I'm wondering what people think since it'd be an across the board change.

Donation Items and Beta Resets
There's understandably been some thoughts about how Donation items (currently the Unearthly Coin, but soon to be more) play into Beta Resets. Right now, they're treated like every other item and put in storage until the end of your next run.

There are a few factors at play here. I definitely want them to be usable in the body of gameplay and not just be after-Slags toys. Which means that optimal gameplay right now would involve donating at the start of each run, which I don't feel is acceptable.

So, there are three basic options I can see:

• Leave it like it is until Beta Reset is replaced with the final system.
• Have donation items automatically carry over into the next life.
• During the reset process, choose one item (donation or otherwise) to carry over into your next life as an inheritance.

I'm leaning towards option three, because the final reset (Production Reset, let's say), will have an option similar to that and it provides an interesting aspect of choice. The second feels kind of tacked on and the first makes me feel like like I'm holding people's runs hostage for donations, which I'm not a fan of.

There's some other weird possibilities the third would open up (like carrying through Eclipse) that I'd have to doublecheck quests for problems with, but I think make it a more interesting choice.

I'm definitely open for suggestions, though. Fire away.

Cheers!
Kinak

Re: Requests for Feedback

Valliant 07 Jun 2009 17:01

I like option three. While option 2 isn't game-breaking now, it definitely will become so as the number of donation items continues to rise.

Re: Requests for Feedback

razielsonofkain 07 Jun 2009 17:07

I think the change in displaying evasion would be a good one: i dont have to do the math (not that i did anyway), and i still see it doing something.

As for the donation items, i think that third option is the best. As for the southside quest you could always replace the normal eclipse item with eclipse sample quest item. That would be probably the easiest solution, but not knowing quest code architecture i cant't be really sure of that:)

Hmm i'll have to get myself to go trough with reseting sometimes…but there's just too much nice things to do and i kinda get distracted all the time.

backfeed

TheWyrd 07 Jun 2009 17:32

1
I don't use the evasion techniques often, so don't care strongly about a change, however, I like knowing how much damage my enemy would have done without me evading, as long as that information remains, I'm very fine with the change. Then I can do math in the other direction. :)

2
I like option three. Adds very interesting options to reset runs, as well as interesting problems for you. ;)

However, you might want to go with the more boring option 2. Because 1 inheritance + unearthly coin (+ items from Zack) > 1 inheritance, making donating every reset optimandatory.

-Wyrd

Last edited on 08 Jun 2009 20:39 by TheWyrd Show more

Re: Requests for Feedback

razielsonofkain 07 Jun 2009 17:39

I think that the only thing that will change is what is appended after attack message stating how many damage you got.
For now evasion appends how many damage you avoided, and after change it would append how many damage you didn't avoid.

After some thinking, i would stick with option 3 but carry over all the unspent coins.

Re: Requests for Feedback

Vholes 07 Jun 2009 20:59

I'll add my support for Door #3, I like that idea a lot. It is unfortunate that that still makes donating optimal for speed, though, like Wyrd said… I'm trying to think about how to fix that, or at least limit it.

But in any case, I like this option best so long as your'e careful not to introduce super-items without stat requirements. Third Eye stash could be a bit too good, but I seem to remember it being a quest item, even if the wiki doesn't say so?

Oh, as for evasion, "if it ain't broke…" - but I don't really mind either way.

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Re: Requests for Feedback

The Kitchen Sink 08 Jun 2009 01:31

1. I always thought it was odd evasion techniques display like that. I always thought it should be "you take [usual minus evade], because you dodged [evade]" but obviously worded a lot better. Like if I were attacked for 20 and I evaded 5 it'd be like "you take 15 damage, seeing as leaping out of the way saved you from 5" or whatever (I'm terrible at wording things). This way you would add to see what the original damage is, as opposed to subtracting to see what the real damage is.

2. I dislike all of the options (in typical "me" fashion).

#1 removes the ability to use them at all throughout the run.
#2 is too easy.
#3 seems like a cheap throwaway mechanic to appease people.

Honestly, the only way I can really see this working is making a softcore-KoL like system where you get X "pulls" a day, and they would be included in that. Much harder to implement and definitely game-changing, but still (and remember, I almost always go HC in KoL so I'm not all that biased by habit :D).

If we have to pick one, I would have to go with #1, honestly. Maybe that is a bias from me being in HC all the time though >_>

Last edited on 08 Jun 2009 01:32 by The Kitchen Sink Show more

Re: Requests for Feedback

Vholes 08 Jun 2009 01:37

I don't see how it's a 'throwaway mechanic'. It's an interesting strategy: you get one item to take with you, but which do you choose? If you'd like to compare that to KoL as well, it's much like the NS11 familiar-selecting when you jump through the gash. If anything, the 'throwaway' 'appeasing' solution would be #2 (a simple 'solution' that allows you to use all your fancy items).

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Re: Requests for Feedback

The Kitchen Sink 08 Jun 2009 01:54

Well, it's a completely arbitrary number. In KoL, you were able to select one familiar because you can only have one familiar at any given time (though obviously you can swap them at any time). It's worth noting that this idea was discarded after NS13, as you note, though it's probably not all that relevant.

You could just as easily say "take three!" or "take two!" or "take one hat and one coat!" etc.

#2 is a blanket mechanic that makes sense on a fundamental basis. Donation items aren't just "fancy," they're donation items, and allowing you to take them with you would be treating them as such. I don't agree with it, but it isn't nearly as rabbit-out-of-the-hat as #3 is, IMO.

Re: Requests for Feedback

Vholes 08 Jun 2009 02:57

Okay, 'rabbit-out-of-the-hat', I get what you're saying now. Yes, it's a bit arbitrary. But on the other hand, we aren't saying 'take one shirt and three miscellaneous items' - selecting one 'heirloom' item to take with you doesn't really jar the game experience. You need to select the most important item to your character and that single most important item can be taken with. Hell, it's a lot less weird than "you can select 20 items from your former life each day until you've been around for an arbitrary length of time, after which you can take what you like. But your familiars and tomes stay with you. And cream pies are free." (Is it 20? I rarely ascend, and it's usually HC when I do. :P)

Another thing that endears #3 to me is the fact that it's not tied directly to donation items - sure, obviously they're going to be the first choice of a player that has them most of the time, but a non-donator can still select something else and not feel as disadvantaged.

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Last edited on 08 Jun 2009 02:57 by Vholes Show more

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