Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Plus4 16 Oct 2016 02:35

Instead of doing "runs", I decided to try and "level up" as much as I can. After spending 6 months, I current have 81 HP and all 4 stats over 50, which is new for me. My guess would be that after this much leveling up, I should be able to get past anything.

The two guards in the vault beat me in 1 or 2 turns, I can't kill either. I'm choosing the Wait for it / Rush forward choice here: http://wiki.metroplexity.com/the-vault

I'm aware of all the other ways I could get around them. I could easily do the sneak option for example. I'm just baffled - am I really this lame of a player? The only other game I play is KoL - and in KoL I can easily just spend a few days leveling up (a week or a month would be massive!) to get past anything in the main quest line.

I just don't get it. Is my current stats super low for this fight, or for 6 months of progress? Just how strong does one have to be to beat those guys? Enlighten me!

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Cryptodynamic 16 Oct 2016 03:10

High stats are useful for the extra HP, and not capping your damage from techniques, but it doesn't take long before power comes into play more on attack, and although more HP helps it's really defense you need to worry about for survival.

With that fight you're dealing with a fairly strong melee guy, and a really strong ranged guy, which already throws a wrench into things. They also have fairly high HP, and quite good ranged defense and decent melee defense for NPCs. I've been able to take on the unarmed ones in-run by using etheric techniques and boosting melee defense a lot. I think etheric techs are probably still a decent bet on the offense, but defending against both ranged and melee is rough.

Even with post-run supplies, spreading yourself between those two is going to be rough. I'd lean a bit more toward defending against ranged, since the gatling guard is really strong. Just by himself he's kind of into boss territory. But if you really want to beat the two of them in-run, that would be my suggestion. Etheric techs, lots of ranged and melee defense, with ranged being more important. Throwing Light of the Eye into the deck might not be a bad idea, since they deal lots of damage and have long chains, so shaving off any of it could help.

On the equipment note, you can get hardened plastic from the crashed mining drone in the construction site, for a dual armored vest and heavy riot shield. The ballistic plastic options might be better if you can get at that in-run, but you'll need to make up the melee defense elsewhere. Also don't forget the bone spikes, bone scales, calcified organs combo. Having all three gives +2 to both ranged and melee defense, on top of all their individual bonuses.

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Plus4 19 Oct 2016 17:36

Thanks for the detailed answer. I might try doing that, but honestly, I'm kind of turned off by the game right now.

What I'm wondering is: is this really design in a balanced manner? Most obstacles in the game have multiple ways of getting around them. So at the vault door, your options are…

• Hacking: I've never tried it, so I don't have an idea on how hard it is, or how many days it would take.
• Implant seed: Misty Offices… Hmm, let's leave that part for now.
• Figuring out that you need to be super stealthy: you can probably get 13 Stealth in a few days.
• Trying to just beat them: level up for half a year and you're still not good enough.

Am I seeing it wrong?

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Kinak 19 Oct 2016 18:53

Grinding for XP doesn't get you a ton of benefit in Metroplexity, which is definitely by design. A careful selection of equipment and techniques will do much more to help in any given fight.

That said, the fight you're trying to push through is more of a failure condition for when other methods (like stealth) don't work. It's not intended to be a good way to get into the vault.

But when I put things like "you know better than to stand and fight these guys" as text, that rubs folks the wrong way. So everyone gets the option to right. It's just not a great option. Sorry you got caught in the middle there.

Cheers!
Kinak

P.S.: There's another way to get in there that you're missing.

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Cryptodynamic 19 Oct 2016 19:46

So, I had something fairly long typed up, then I managed to lose it all. Go me! Trying to reconstruct it:

I don't think all options are intended to be balanced, especially with something with as many possibilities as getting into the records vault.

• Hacking: Two different options here.
  • Hacking into the Records Office Network to add your retinal pattern to the database. A Basic Gatekeeper can be a bit rough. The Employee IDs routine doesn't seem that bad, with a single Command die apparently being enough, but we're not sure what trigger is involved with it working.
  • Hacking the OmniTech BigDig. This is my current go-to. With a Fang PDA and a linked handheld you can pretty easily put together and run a Remote Command Script and a Network Defender with a spare processor die left over. (You'll want the defender for a defense die to keep the Hardware Breaker from kicking you out.)
• Implant Seed: Intention here is less to be an optimal approach and more to be cool, I think. Also, it's possible that infesting the records office is part of some side path to getting a skill or some other reward from the plant, which would make it worth doing on its own.
• Stealth: Should be do-able in run… I worked out that it seemed just barely possible for an Imperial run (but a real headache), though I haven't looked over what reasonably obtainable in-run equipment would work out best. There does seem to be something other than just a straight stealth check going on, though. I've succeeded with 13 and later failed with 14. Scaling chance with some minimum required?
• Brute Force: I'm guessing this mostly exists as a counterpart to the stealth option, since something needs to happen if you fail, right? Even with post-run equipment, these guys are into boss fight territory. The game definitely gives you options to throw yourself into bad situations, and at least the consequences of this are fairly short-term.
• Cyberware: You didn't mention this, but the Midgard Records ID and be used as the base to eventually make a Midgard Records cybereye, and then you can just badge yourself in. This does require salvaging tools, though, and then some RNG luck on getting an empty cybereye. At least you can throw credits at buying OmniEyes and should eventually get one.

I would guess that the methods that involve the records ID (hacking and cyberware) might be the 'intended' approaches, since the ID is pretty prominent in the area, the description mentions the retinal patterns, and it shows up as a crafting component. Possibly the stealth approach as well. Though it did take us a while to find out it even existed…

I'm not sure how it would appear to a new player, though. Even with hacking gear, they might have missed the juryrigged antenna recipe, because none of the quest computer systems before Oldtown require it. They're all found as terminals through choice encounters. And if they lost out on the ability to get salvaging tools, crafting an Oldtown retinal map is a bit of a dead-end.

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Kinak 19 Oct 2016 22:22

You didn't mention this, but the Midgard Records ID and be used as the base to eventually make a Midgard Records cybereye, and then you can just badge yourself in. This does require salvaging tools, though, and then some RNG luck on getting an empty cybereye. At least you can throw credits at buying OmniEyes and should eventually get one.

The RNG here isn't really intended and has been removed.

Cheers!
Kinak

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Plus4 21 Oct 2016 14:46

So everyone gets the option to right.

I think you meant the option to choose, right? ;-)

I'm not sure how it would appear to a new player, though.

That is pretty much what I'm wondering about a lot. For a long time I felt that there's a bunch of things that bother me about Metroplexity as a whole, I just find it hard to articulate what it is exactly.

However, I think I can give it a shot. Remember, this is just my (friendly) opinion :-)

The game is now too complex and involved to be playable without the wiki. Or in other words, its geared very heavily towards "spades" (I'm referring to the Bartle taxonomy). I realize it must be hard to make something that caters to everyone, so I'll try to explain where *I'm* coming from: I sit down to play with Metroplexity every once in a while when I have free time to get away from the daily worries, click around a bit, read some interesting content, etc. I'm not into socializing that much, PvP never appealed to me at all in any games. I don't mind about getting on any "fastest ascenders" list or anything like that. I do occasionally enjoy "spading" something specific. But mostly, I just want to slowly advance and enjoy the ride.

I'm fine with all the other options to get past the vault door, but they are all way too involved. I'm fine with all those options offering better "rewards" for solving the problem (if nothing else, then the fact that you can do them under a week). I'd just like to see a somewhat simpler option that eventually has a chance of succeeding, at the cost of… time invested, I guess. Okay, let's try to put that into even simpler terms: I would like grinding to be (eventually) rewarded.

I guess that's about it.

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Kinak 21 Oct 2016 17:08

No offense taken. It's a hard balance to strike. I'll put some more thought into how this specific test plays into that.

Cheers!
Kinak

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

xKiv 21 Oct 2016 17:53

I think you meant the option to choose, right? ;-)

I think it's just that f is fight next to r.
I mean, r is right next to f.

+ murder the joke

(everyone gets the option to fight).

Re: Getting past vault guards in a regular fight

Kinak 07 Dec 2016 00:32

Tweaked the door encounter, adding a couple new ways to handle and influence things.

I also added some more text suggesting that fight might be way too much, so it's hopefully clearer that it's not the preferred path.

Cheers!
Kinak