Drowning Flame / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page Drowning Flame.

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Magnifico 01 Dec 2009 16:08

I finally gave up trying to get a tier 3 form and used mine. I got 163 energy of crystal grace. So if there's a tier 3 form out there, it'll take more charges than that.

EDIT: On my fourth use, I got the same message I got when I used it the first time, namely:

The energies within the crystal cling to the face like fire as its mouth opens in a silent scream.

Maybe there are more messages out there and it just picks a random one, or maybe it's starting to repeat, which would indicate that I've probably got to think of some other way to try and make progress with this item.

Last edited on 05 Dec 2009 02:11 by Magnifico Show more

bigalphillips 14 Dec 2009 05:26

I finally got the ocean sight skill so I can start testing for messages:

First one was the first one listed:

Deep within the crystal you can see, or perhaps hallucinate, a faint face. It slowly shifts and fades as the crystal's energies flow into you.

Second use, same message:

Deep within the crystal you can see, or perhaps hallucinate, a faint face. It slowly shifts and fades as the crystal's energies flow into you.

The energies within the crystal cling to the face like fire as its mouth opens in a silent scream.

Third:

Deep within the crystal you can see, or perhaps hallucinate, a faint face. It slowly shifts and fades as the crystal's energies flow into you.

Reflected in the depths of the crystal, you can see the burnt out husk of a building.

(I really should have gone for fae sight so I can test those messages instead. Oh well, next reset.)

Last edited on 28 Dec 2009 16:49 by bigalphillips Show more

Magnifico 30 Dec 2009 20:39

Just got this new message:

A beautiful voice, so flawless it could never pass through a mortal throat, whispers into your mind. "You've seen it's no mere drug or contagion. You could no sooner cure me of my condition than I could cure you of yours."

This was using the drowning flame with crystal grace still active from last time. I'm not sure whether or not it's a coincidence.

Both times I've gotten this message:

The face seems to smile. Whoever she is… and you're suddenly certain it's female… she's happy.

I have had more than the minimum number of charges in the flame. Not sure whether or not that's just a coincidence too. I was thinking it meant the woman wants me to charge the crystal more, but in light of this message maybe it just means she's happy being a crystal spirit or whatever. (As far as I know nobody has really played around with overcharging the drowning form since early spading to determine whether or not there was a tier 3 form.)

I've been spending a lot of time in the damaged buildings because of guaranteed combats and Al's message about the burnt out husk of a building, but thinking about it now that's probably referring to the fire in the Student Dorms. Maybe I should go back to locations near water to see if anything good happens in proximity to the ocean, say with the Ocean Song effect active.

I also recently got an augmented version of an earlier message [emphasis added to indicate new bit]:

The strange light suggests seaweed and a great chasm. Supplicants surround the chasm, raising their heads in song. As you stare, tentacles snake their way out of the chasm.

Maybe I have to summon some Thing to get that last technique Kinak mentioned on the podcast? Hope I don't need a tome of binding…

I'm open to suggestions about how to proceed. I've been just charging it up and using it to see if I get a new message. If any of you folks have clever ideas about other stuff to try I'd love to hear them.

Vholes 03 Jan 2010 06:33

What if each message is associated with a particular # (or range) of charges, and you can get the additional message by using the same number of charges twice?

Unless Mag has been using it as soon as possible every time?

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Magnifico 03 Jan 2010 15:24

I have not kept very good notes on charges, since when I started testing it had looked like # of charges was a dead end. In general, I have been using the flame as soon as I hit 32 charges, or within a turn or two of that (sometimes I don't notice the form change right away). If you look at my earlier posts on this page, you'll see that I got the same message the first and fourth times I used the flame. The first time I had 163 charges, the fourth time almost certainly 32 or close to it. So my suspicion is that, at least for a large range of messages, charges are irrelevant. My guess instead is the certain ones are dependent on having already seen other ones—I suspect that's going on with whether the supplicants yield tentacles or not.

That said, as I also said above, there are a few messages that I have only gotten from an overcharged flame. The first time I got the smiling message I had a bunch of extra charges in the flame from using it for + etheric power vs. staring snowmen when I didn't want to use it and lose power and the Eclipse duration bonus. Then I started deliberately waiting to use the flame until 64 charges a few times. I did get some new messages, but those may be coincidental, or dependent on having used the flame many previous times. I wish I knew if this mattered—-I could get more messages/day if I knew for sure that I could use it right away each time. Maybe Kinak will throw us a bone in the podcast … I'm back to using it right away in the meantime, since I'm impatient, and so that if I get one of the smile or you can't cure me messages I'll know it's not charge-related.

My current spading hope is based on the fact that the number of Crystal Strike, Fist of the Herald, and Crystal Gate techniques you can get seems to cap at 10. So maybe mastering what the flame has to teach will unlock getting the last technique Kinak mentioned on the last podcast. I just completed the set with my tenth instance of FotH, so we'll see if something interesting happens next time I use the flame. The fact that Voice of Wrath can't chain with any of these has me worried, though. I feel like if we had a better handle on what "capable of drawing Eclipse from multiple sources" means, we'd be closer to the right track.

Last edited on 03 Jan 2010 15:30 by Magnifico Show more

Vholes 03 Jan 2010 21:30

Thanks for the info, master flame spader. :) Has anyone tried using Voice of Wrath with just Slags Poisoning active?

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Last edited on 03 Jan 2010 21:31 by Vholes Show more

Magnifico 04 Jan 2010 15:23

I tested it today, and just Slags Poisoning is not enough to power Voice of Wrath.

My theory of the moment is that using Crystal Gate is important. The combat text out of water is

You call out. A strange green light floats down from the sky, surrounding and consuming the <opponent> for <X> damage.

The bit about "consuming" has me thinking that using the technique sacrifices your opponent to, well, Things. FWIW, after using that technique a bunch I got what may be a variant on an earlier message. So I'm going to keep feeding the Things and see if that leads anywhere.

EDIT: Huh. After charging the flame to drowning almost exclusively with Crystal Gate, I got the supplicants message without the extra bit about seeing tentacles. I'll keep at it for another couple of uses, but this discourages me. On the other hand, maybe the fact that I'm seeing them at all is a good sign. Maybe it takes several courses of sacrifices in a row?

Last edited on 04 Jan 2010 15:37 by Magnifico Show more

Cryptodynamic 04 Jan 2010 16:09

Incidentally, on the topic of Voice of Wrath… I had missed your post before, Mag, but the enemy that I got it to work on with no etheric energy available was just a Third Eye Ganger, though I believe I've had it work on a few other enemy types since then. And given that Voice of Wrath involves a prayer, it seems to me that there's likely something important going on there. I've been using my turns of etheric recently mostly for fishing in the Slags, but once I get a big enough bass I can try playing around with my flame and Voice of Wrath some more. Perhaps it's possible to get more consistent results when using it while not etheric.

On that note, has anybody else tried using Voice of Wrath without any etheric energy available? I suppose it might be worth keeping track of, say, how many Eclipse I have on hand before and after it happening, although I think there'd probably be a message to that effect if an item was being used up. Still, we seem to be in the dark about what multiple sources means, so it might be worth checking.

Magnifico 04 Jan 2010 17:10

If my theory about Crystal Gate being a sacrifice to Things is right, then maybe doing that is what would make your "prayer" work even without Eclipse. Right now I'm loaded up with Ocean Sight from taking advantage of the Eclipse Duration bonus of the flame before I used it, but when that wears off I'll try some Voice of Wrath and see what happens. I'm not super-confident in this theory, because the combat text for Defensive Burn doesn't seem as consistent with the idea of sacrifice, and you can also get VoW from the serene crystal. But maybe if we had more use messages for the serene crystal we'd have a better idea of what would fit with its narrative. Hint, hint. >.>

bigalphillips 04 Jan 2010 17:42

But maybe if we had more use messages for the serene crystal we'd have a better idea of what would fit with its narrative. Hint, hint. >.>

I reset and got fae sight this run, but I'm currently running away from every combat to keep my stats low enough to spade opponent's defense values. I'll give up on that endeavour in a day or two and start collecting messages.

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