Unearthly Item Buying Guide / Discussion

This is the discussion related to the wiki page Unearthly Item Buying Guide.

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Vholes 07 Nov 2010 05:57

Awesome! Thanks for doing this. I just added descriptions. This seems like a good place to debate those and the rankings.

I altered one ranking, which was the mysterious puzzle's complexity, which I changed from 4 subroutines to 5. Even just for resetting, you need a couple (semi-broken) greasemonkey scripts to use it, and even then it'll take weeks of work to figure out without direction from other players and/or the wiki.

Maybe change the unearthly coin: utility (post-run) from 3 stars to 2? Seems kinda niche.

miscellaneous flavor/fun… yeah, so long as your ratings are within 1 doll head of mine there's no point in arguing that. ;)

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Last edited on 07 Nov 2010 06:54 by Vholes Show more

Vholes 07 Nov 2010 10:11

Moved Urban Legends utility from 5 down to 3 in-run and 4 post-run, though I'm open to compromise. It opens up new options in-run but isn't as powerful as the unearthly coin. Post-run you can save up a complete stock of the items, and the +20% attribute boosts are more extreme.

Also moved the flavor/fun up to 2 (I'd give it a 3, so it's a compromise). C'mon, special halloween content? list of names? That's gotta be at least a step above some patchable pants.

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Last edited on 07 Nov 2010 10:24 by Vholes Show more

llamaman 07 Nov 2010 11:13

I really put it so high on utility, simply because it lets you, for free, get access to the ability to remove etheric, which is a power that I've used to great effect after getting it. But that being said that's fine that you disagree, I just made numbers.

I listed the flavor so low because it's so simple to use, though I guess implanting a kidney because you're an uberrobotmutant is fun. The halloween content is… one thing, but yeah, ok.

And there's still some potential questions about the smoke monster weren't there? I think?

Greywind 11 Nov 2010 15:32

Thank you! This is great!

Vholes 12 Nov 2010 07:47

you're welcome =)

moved urban lore to 4. that's probably more fair

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

Magnifico 12 Nov 2010 15:14

Glad you're finding the guide useful, Greywind. Knowing that makes it worth doing stuff like this.

Re: Urban Legends—Kinak has flat-out said

There's something more with the Dark Specter.

He also said that something is related to a different unsolved mystery …

Also, it's not strictly true that Urban Lore is the only skill that lets you get rid of unwanted turns of Etheric, because Slags Eater also does that. However, that skill is an all-or-nothing proposition, so not something you'd want to do if you only wanted to get rid of some but not all energy of the effect. And, of course, it's not available every run no matter what.

Greywind 30 Nov 2011 06:06

Since Vholes said this was a good place to debate the rankings…

I really don't find the prototype coat that useful post-run. The only time I ever use it is when I'm maximizing code finesse, which isn't even all that often. In run, definitely a five. Post-run? Maybe a 2.

On the other hand, the HKGames helmet is just awesome post-run. I may be biased because of my use of Rasping Teeth in gang warfare, but it also has Gem Break, which is fantastic on its own. How good does two great techniques make an item? Well, the spacious cargo pants is apparently receiving a 3 for having three techniques all worse than these, the crystalline flame has a 4 for two decent techniques and a +1 eclipse duration, and the unearthly coin gets a 2 for allowing one moderately useful fish per day. I vote for HKGames to get at least a 3 post-run.

Magnifico 30 Nov 2011 17:03

Thanks for bringing this up. I tend to focus mostly on the qualitative evaluations in the text and don't always go back and take another look at the numerical rankings when I make changes.

At least until the advent of the Rag Man's cape I'd get a bunch of instances of Cinematic Dodge for post-run fighting after finishing pretty much every reset. So even if I'd equip the actual coat mostly for hacking, I've still gotten a lot of use out of owning it post-run. If you've got scores of HP, and especially if you're mostly focused on PvP, maybe evasion isn't as big a deal. But when you're (or at least, when I'm) just emerging from a run I still generally want to dodge around. I might switch over to Ragged Dodge now if I'm not worried about Stealth attacks, but often I'll want to wear a different shirt (feathered cloak for +choice encounters, say). Cinematic Dodge still works, even vs. stealth, no matter what you're wearing. I guess I could maybe see bringing the rating down to 3 stars, but I'm inclined to want to leave it where it is.

I think of the techniques from the HKGames helmet as sort of niche—I'm rarely around post-run long enough for it to make sense to get them. But if we're rating stuff for post-run use taking a longer-term view is probably the way to go. Not having had the techniques much, I don't know how good they are for applications other than gang warfare? Do you use them for boss fights or other PvE stuff?

bigalphillips 30 Nov 2011 17:30

The best +choice encounter shirt alone makes it very useful for me post run (though I suppose a 3 star rating would be reasonable).

Last edited on 30 Nov 2011 17:32 by bigalphillips Show more

Vholes 30 Nov 2011 23:54

For ease of comparison between the items we're talking about:

item	in-run utility rating	post-run utility rating
unearthly coin	5	2
spacious cargo pants	3	2
HK Games helmet	1	3
prototype coat	5	4
crystalline flame	2	4

I've arranged them by their post-run rating, and can add more if anyone wants me too.

I was going to post my item-by-item opinions, but looking at the altered ratings, I think I agree with all of them. Greywind makes a convincing argument for the helmet's new rating. Prototype coat probably borders 3 and 4, as people have said, but the sheer breadth of uses (+chance of everything, fantastic evasion technique) makes me lean towards a 4.

We could consider a rubric, to make things slightly less subjective. For utility, I could see something like:

1	almost never useful
2	quite useful for 1 niche purpose, or slightly useful in several situations
3	very useful for 1 or 2 niche purposes, or slightly useful in everyday play
4	"can't live without it" for a niche purpose, or very useful for certain playstyles, or quite useful in everyday play
5	"can't live without it" for a certain playstyle, or very useful in everyday play

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In the beginning, men were mortal.

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